Other great note takers and points for improvement for Joplin

Indent using the tab key normally does unformatted text. If you do indent (you need to do double indents and have line spaces to make it work), the indent block is highlighted green in the regular markdown editor. However, it is treated as inline code in the visual editor. The biggest issue with all this is the inconsistency and indents's use of large spaces since it needs that double transform.

It would be very hard to have more than couple indent hierarchy in a page because one will run out of available space quickly. And wrapped indent blocks do not look nice geenrally, something Trilium sucks at ,it always wraps the blocks.

If you go back and forth between the regular editor and the visual editor (just make a very small change to test), you will see that the double indent block is converted to a code block.

The visual editor does not seem to support tabbing at all. The tab key does not do anything in the visual editor. It would be really great if the visual editor actually support indent with the tab without any workarounds or special codes than.

Here is a screenshot that shows the editor, rendered and how the same text looks in a notepad editor. I personally prefer the spacing in a regular notepad editor, better readable and space efficient.

Speaking of other projects deserving attention, our brothers and sisters from China made an impressive app called Siyuan.

It's a proprietary personal knowledge management system focused around Markdown instant rendering editor called Vditor (open source/MIT, Typescript, react support, depends on lute).

What's good about it?

  • Adoption of so called "content blocks" allowing to reference and view a specific part of a note
  • Hierarchical tags
  • Graph view, notes hierarchy, journal note, mermaid/plantuml/graphviz support, programmable templates, community themes/icons/templates, web clipper, tabs, search, all that jazz
  • Much more restrained approach to UI compared to trilium

What's bad?

  • No third party sync providers, i.e. sync works only via it's own service (not sure if it's open source), account is required
  • Documentation and developer communication is mostly in chinese
  • no IOS app yet (it's on the roadmap)
  • Registration is apparently works only with chinese phone numbers that makes sync unusable for the rest of the world at the moment
  • E2E encryption is a paid feature

P.S. I'm not sure if this post fits in this thread, if it doesn't, I leave to moderators to split it

Update: Siyuan is actually a proprietary software whereas vditor is open source, thanks to @hyfree for pointing it out. Sorry for misinformation!

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While on we are on additional notetakers, here is another one that can be self-hosted. There are both web app, desktop clients and mobile apps.

https://www.wiz.cn/

It is feature rich, supports users, has basic pen drawing input, offers very nice calendar support etc

Thanks for sharing! That editor is so cool, for anyone interested they have a demo available online. 如何在 React 中使用 - Vditor

It should be possible to integrate this editor in to Joplin as well. From my testing it works really well.

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Very pleasant editor, handles everything very nicely, tables, theming, outline, etc.

Very user friendly

That would be very interesting indeed. The user experience is excellent. The appearance of the menus, the full screen mode... very good. In addition, it is excellent that the backlinks give the context of the sentence in which the reference is found.

Yeah, that's one of the few things I think Joplin could improve upon.... even with the awesome Rich Markdown plugin. Agree with you both... wish Joplin had a similar experience, editor wise :slight_smile:

Love how you can create tables, code etc with just one button push. Am I correct that there is no support for images though? I see some menu options so I might have missed it, I don't speak Chinese I'm afraid.

Try pasting the following markdown in to the editor.

![some](https://raw.githubusercontent.com/laurent22/joplin/dev/Assets/LinuxIcons/256x256.png)

It looks like the little cloud icon is the attach feature, but it's disabled for the demo.
image

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Nice! Really like that editor :smiley:

There are a few things I missed from Evernote when I started using Joplin. Two concerned being able to compare the information from multiple notes. The first was the lack of detachables notes, but that could be worked around by using external editors. The second concerned the lack of Evernote's view options for the note list, specifically the snippet view which might be similar to what you're looking for:
image
That's the sort of enhancement provided by plugins in Joplinland. @mablin7's Kanban Board Project springs immediately to mind as an example.

I agree it's a matter of individual preference, and Markdown wasn't really created with indented outlines in mind. @laurent's use of tab indenting makes perfect sense if you're editing notes as text, but that information gets lost in the rendering. For my purposes adding [TOC] and different levels of headings is sufficient as it allows me to navigate when I'm using a rendered note for reference.

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Reminder: Siyuan is private, not open source. Siyuan's editor (vditor) is open source. Second, Siyuan notes are great.

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I can speak a little Chinese, and language translation is not very difficult. For example, I am using Google Translate to communicate with you.

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I also tried it without any problem. For me, the interface was not too complicated. What I had problems with was that Markdown support was severely limited, there was no syntax highlighting in code blocks, there was no typescript between code type elements, server-side javascript could be run, but console.log did nothing.

What was nice about it was the code block execution option, I would like to see something like that in Joplin. Especially if it would be complemented with python, there are js libraries that allow this, e.g. brpython.

What it really wasn't was the markdown handling, and that there was no mobile version.

Are y'all talking about this editor?

Because I've opened it just now and only tried 2 things; one didn't work, and the other outright garbled my text. I'm not very impressed.

Update: like this.

vditor

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That's been my experience too when looking a bit more closely at these editors. I've reviewed quite a few when I've implemented the Rich Text editor and they are all a bit like this. They have nice, impressive demos, but you often find all kind of limitations that makes them hard to use in a real app.

And I didn't check the API or doc, but usually they are not good enough to support what we need (in particular with regards to attachments, note links, code blocks, katex, etc.).

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I also passed Trilium on my long walk to Joplin.
I was put off by the nerdy UI and also the lack of mobile apps.

But..as mentioned here before, a card view mode would really be a great addition to Joplin.
This allows for a very quick overview and visual prorization and curodization of notes.
This efficient overview would otherwise, be one of the few things I will miss when I will have completely switched from Google Notes (Keep) to Joplin.

Thanks for considering this feature!

index

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I have been giving some thought about card view and I think @JackGruber 's work on the plugin note overview might be the solution to achieving this. I have already been able to achieve this thanks to some new updates on the note over view plugin:

My plan is that instead of using <details> tag I might able to use a custom html tag with some custom css to display note overview as cards. I just need a few hours to try things out.

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I am quite happy with the editor in the desktop versions. However, the mobile editors would be easier to use with some more functions. On the one hand I think of some kind of a toolbar above the keyboard. Like it is visible in the screenshots of the MDNotes App (IOS). For android I think a good app for comparison is Markor. MDNotes is to my knowledge not open source and Markor is written in Java. Both of them interact directly with the filesystem.


Ipad Mini Landscape


Iphone SE Portrait

A toolbar with quick camera/photos access could come in very handy as iOS15 supports OCR (Live Text, only supported in newer devices) in the camera/photos app. As Markor seems to have a toolbar too, I assume there is a way to implement something in all mobile versions.
Maybe there is also already a custom made keyboard around that makes it easier to type markdown on mobile? Though, in terms of style it would most likely look better if it is from Joplin itself.

On the other hand I am missing a faster navigation on tablets in landscape orientation (notebooks -> note -> open/edit). A fixed notes sidebar would improve usability on tablets in landscape orientation. For the portrait mode and on too small devices I don't think a change of behavior would be helpful. Maybe there were already considerations or there are reasons why this was not implemented.

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To continue the discussion somewhat in regards to markdown editors, I recently came across Cherry Editor the other day which piqued my interest.

It doesn't appear that it can currently support a full WYSIWYG experience but from a markdown editor p
perspective it features a bunch of features that I really quite like (there are some interactive demos if you should want to have a look - most of the links below go to the demo and to the interactive section I'm talking about although you might have to hit return on the URL bar a second time to get it scroll there for some reason)

Markdown

  • Quick font styling syntax (Cherry Editor - Markdown Editor).
    It uses its own markdown syntax of ! text !. e.g

    • !32 text! will set the rendered size of "text" to 32 pt
    • !!#ff0000 text!! will set the font colour to red
    • !!!#000000 text!!! will set the background colour to black.
      These can also be combined so you could have big red text on a black background by writing !32 !!#ff0000 !!!#000000 text !!!!!!
      This font styling is also supported by a 2 pane colour picker from the toolbar and it can be inserted within other markdown tags (for example in a URL)
  • Markdown image manipulation syntax (Cherry Editor - Markdown Editor)

    • Adds syntax to the image tag for sizing, positioning etc e.g ![dog#auto#100px#left](images/demo-dog.png)
    • When the image is manipulated on the preview pane, the size values etc. will change on the markdown editor (Cherry Editor - Markdown Editor)
  • Inbuilt diagram support (mermaid etc.) (Cherry Editor - Markdown Editor)

Editor


Thoughts

The editor looks nice and seems to behave quite nicely. It does appear to be very new so I've had a couple of janky experiences but nothing major.

The obvious problem I see here is the extended "CherryMarkdown" syntax not being compatible with other markdown flavours. I suppose there could always be a conversion routine when exporting to markdown that could strip the extended syntax away to make it compatible again.

The dynamic image resizing is something that I personally would find really helpful in Joplin when trying to import photos etc that don't take over my whole screen, I obviously use the proper html tag syntax for resizing but its clumsy and certainly not intuitive for less technical users.

I'm going to keep my eye on it, it looks like it has potential to me.

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while exploring Github I found the software (SiYuan)
Then I searched Google with key words "siyuan joplin"
and the first search result leads me to this discussion

The Github page of this software Siyuan says that it is an open source.

source (Website Link): GitHub - siyuan-note/siyuan: SiYuan is a local-first personal knowledge management system, supports fine-grained block-level reference, and Markdown WYSIWYG. 思源笔记是一款本地优先的个人知识管理系统, 支持细粒度块级引用和 Markdown 所见即所得。Roadmap https://github.com/orgs/siyuan-note/projects/1

(I love joplin and badly expecting the inter link feature in joplin so i am exploring all the opensource Note taking software which have the option to interlink in that process i ended up here
and
I am new to opensource, joplin, github, I am bit confused whether that software SiYuan is open source or Proprietary software , please enlighten me)