I think if you a using a pre-release you cannot expect stable and error-free software, that’s just the nature of a pre-release.
On the other hand incompatibilities between versions are super annoying, especially on mobile where you cannot easily upgrade to a pre-release (impossible on iOS, installing an apk is also nerve-racking). Perhaps the pre-release versions could be released to the Beta Channels of Google and Apple? I am not sure how straightforward that is, especially Apples TestFlight seems to have some limitations. But for users it would be much easier to use the pre-release on mobile in the future. What do you think?
In a perfect world, yes, but in practice it already takes a long time just to do a regular release on iOS and Play Store because it's a lot of slow manual steps (wait for the build, wait for the upload, wait for the store to pick up the new file, etc.) and that's assuming everything went well. Any mistake and you have to start over. So at the moment we simply don't have the resources to also manage beta releases for these platforms.
Perhaps if we manage to simplify and automate the process further we could, but I don't see it happening any time soon unfortunately.
I was also mystified that anyone would would be using a pre-release on their actual note data. I assumed it was just devs using this. But when I read https://joplinapp.org/prereleases it does appear that they are billed as safe and that as a regular user you can help out by updating to them.
I'm not trying to criticize, but when I read the text at the top of this post, Pre-release v2.3 is now available it seems to be giving the message that there is a real chance you should not upgrade to this and instead test out on test data.
In hindsight, I would have suggested something more like
CAUTION: Don't upgrade if you sync with a mobile app or CLI
So basically if there is a known chance of things not working, as in this case, I recommend using "CAUTION" instead of "IMPORTANT".
I'd also recommend leading with the most direct (if not necessarily 100% likely) bad consequence possible. So, for example, in this post, Pre-release v2.3 is now available, just start out by saying you should only upgrade if you are using it to test.
In news reporting, they call it not burying the lede. Basically, don' start by explaining what's going on. People who do start to read may not understand and miss the important bit.
I'm sorry the devs have had to deal with so much negativity. I offer these only as friendly suggestions.
Hmm, actually pre-releases are supposed to be relatively safe. I use them all the time with my real data and I don't remember ever having lost anything due to them. Of course I'm also aware of the drawbacks so for example I've used that particular pre-releases because I knew I could have it on both my phone and desktop. I also know I've extensively tested it over many weeks with a ton of automated test units, so I don't think any remaining bug could have a big impact.
This particular pre-release is exceptional since it has a sync target upgrade (only happened once before) so indeed it requires people to read the release notes. Maybe most pre-release users have been used to not do so since they mostly work so they might tend to forget about them.
I see your points and we can improve the communication but as Tessus mentioned there's only so much we can do because many users won't read the forum posts and release notes. Perhaps there's also something to do on the software side to improve that situation but not sure what.
Absolutely. Even theoretical "perfect" communication still won't prevent confusion. I'm guessing that the majority of users aren't accustomed to having a piece of software that is so core to their workflow be as dynamic as Joplin is. On the positive side, 1) Joplin is core to people's workflow! and 2) Joplin is dynamic!
I think I'm going to release this officially tomorrow since it seems to work well, and I prefer not to add any other features to this release. iOS and Android apps are already ready, so once they are in the store I'll release the desktop app and a bit later the CLI app.
One thing that might potentially cause confusion is the iOS version isn't 2.x.x, its 12.x.x both in the app store and in the "more information" section of the app. Whilst I'm sure many could figure out to just strike the 1 from the start I don't think that will be everyone. Is it worth mentioning the specific iOS numbering in the warning?
i'm completely losst,
maybe explain what a sync target means.
in my opinion from client site the target is the server .. and the origin should be the client
which server is meant ? the own hosted server or the cloud server ? .. in case of cloud server .. why and how each user need to update the server ?
after all those message i'm really losst
Hi,
Thanks Laurent again for all you are doing.
1 question : what is the best way to upgrade to 2.3 version
(A) first joplin server from 2.2 to 2.3 and then joplin clients from 2.2 to 2.3 ?
(B) reverse (first clients then server) ?
(C) no importance because those versions are unrelated between server and client ?
Aaah, thanks, I went through this entire thread(*) just to ask that last question.
I got the prompt for the 2.3 download, checked for new versions of the Server, and since there were none, I was afraid it'd break. Ok, so I'll just go ahead and upgrade now. (Maybe that's one little thing I'd like in the future: in cases like these, please maybe explicitly say what's the status of the Server, even if no update is needed? Just to be extra clear for the slow ones among us. )
I didn't dive too deep in this thread since... there have already been a lot of opinions :-), but this ^^ seems like a reasonable direction, or maybe something like:
WARNING: Upgrading to version 2.3 of Joplin has breaking changes and will prevent your notes from syncing to older versions of the app. Your data is not at risk, but you should wait to upgrade until you can upgrade all your apps at the same time.
What you need to do:
Upgrade to version:
iOS: X
Android: X
CLI: X
Desktop: 2.3
Joplin Server: 2.0 or greater
Then, choose "Update sync target" in any of the apps. (Upgrading the the sync target essentially means uploading a new setting file to whichever sync target you use, whether it is Dropbox, OneDrive, Joplin Cloud, etc.)
Done! At this point your apps will sync as before.
As always you should backup your data before upgrading to a new version.
As a general rule for things like this I like:
Bad news first: Like @whitewall said, don't want to bury the lede.
What is at risk / how urgent: For instance if there was ever a security update, i'd want to hear that it needed to be done ASAP, which is not true in this case. In this instance the user can do this when it is convenient. They just need to know to NOT upgrade until they have time
Step-by-step: What do I as a user need to do and what to expect.
Confirmation that its working: How can I double check that everything is working (in this case it seems that syncing will work as before).
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