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WYSIWYG editor in Joplin

I guess the WYSIWYG camp would also have a problem with HyperMD when the tokens are not hidden.

The main question is, how would HyperMD be added to Joplin? Would it replace the current 2 pane system or would it be added as an option?
HyperMD itself has a few option that would have to be made available via settings. In either case these settings should be made available to the user. (The same way it is in done in the demo with the labs button, but that the changes are automatically saved and remembered).

I certainly don’t want that images are shown inline all the time or that links are hidden behind an icon. This might be awesome for mouse users, but I reckon there are a lot of people out there (like me) who care about the essentials. I rather use my keyboard to quickly jog down some notes. And when I paste a link, I want to see the actual URL and not seeing it transforming into a clickable object.

As mentioned before, I’m not inherently against WYSIWYG. I just want the options to customize it. That’s all.

It actually does have to replace the MD editor. Here’s the thing. This project is a one man band with help from a few community members once in a blue moon. To add a full WYSIWYG editor will most likely mean he needs to abandon the MD editor. If he had wanted this to be a WYSIWYG note taking app he would have done that from the start.

To be fair, he should probably change the tagline on the first page from:
An open source note taking and to-do application with synchronisation capabilities.
to
An open source markdown note taking and to-do application with synchronisation capabilities.

If for no other reason then to prevent threads like this from being a constant on here.

i am absolutely aware of the topic of most open-source projects and i am very thankful for all the folks out there who enrich the world with useful and good software and tools.
it is just a question, if it is somehow possible to take code from Tomboy (which is a good example for a neat little note-taking app with some useful formatting) and integrate it in Joplin as an option, so users can choose to use the MD or the WYSIWYG functionality?
Perhaps the two projects could unite and make a really good open-source note-taking WYSIWYG/MD app for every platform.
Tomboy lacks support for other OS and Joplin lacks a WYSIWG editor view…

Just a thought from a naive user addicted to synthesis :wink:

Joplin is an Electron app, Tomboy is a mono/.NET app with a GTK interface. I don’t think they’re all that compatible.

Also, the projects merging isn’t just up to Laurent but to the guy behind Tomboy, and from what I’ve seen on their Github I don’t think that will ever happen since Tomboy seems to be exits under the Gnome project.

Also, Tomboy like Joplin is a note taking app and they both have syncing, so why not use it if you like it more the Joplin?

Both are cross platform, both are note taking apps, both have online syncing capabilities. Just use the one you actually like.

Thanks for your answer.

I’ve used Tomboy for about 10 years now but there isn’t an Android app which works but i would like to have the option to use my notes on the phone. So the best alternative is Joplin for now.
I like Joplin very much, but for me the notes are more readable without all the MD symbols and formatting characters - like in the layout view - and i like to take notes just like that - readable… :wink:

I’m new to Joplin, and I think it is great tool - thank you so much, it’s just what I need for multi-platform note taking. But I would support a built-in WYSIWYG editing capability as an option - when I’m looking at a note I want to be able to benefit from the formatting rather than being distracted by worrying about the syntax I need to get this formatting, and it would be great not to have to switch from a View mode to an Edit mode. (At the moment I use Zim a lot, which obviously has some parallels, and it does have a WYSIWYG editor.) So if @devonzuegel or anyone else were able to graft on a WYSIWYG option then I really think that it would be a great enhancement. Many thanks.

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Is there a point to wait for a built in editor in near future?

+1 for HyperMD - I just tried out the demo of HyperMD here and I would really like to have this as an option. It provides a good balance between WYSIWYG and access to Markdown. - I would probably use it as the default, if Joplin would integrate it and only switch to the two-pane view, when there is a need for it.

@laurent would it be feasible to integrate that into the mobile versions as well?

Wow… just had a look at HyperMD. It is looking great and I like the similar approach to Typora.

So… +1!

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I agree with Vaughan: I see the appeal of markdown with its flexibility and simplicity, but having a built-in WYSIWYG editor for folks just looking for more generic note-taking and -reading capabilities would be great.

Something similar to Dreamweaver interface might be the better option with three modes: WYSIWYG editor, markdown and split view.

WYSIWYG as a default caters for a larger demographic as it requires no learning. Familiarity with Word processors along with many other common applications makes it a far more comfortable experience for majority of users.

Another advantage of WYSIWYG is readability, I find it far more difficult to find different sections of the content I want editor as there’s no clear distinction between section e.g. bold headings and highlight sections. Markup also adds clutter which further reduces readability.

Markup definitely has it advantages particularly with Latex, HTML and other more advanced features. However, I think a WYSIWYG editor provides a much more intutiative experience and can be more productive for general use.

No it wouldn’t work. I see HyperMD is based on Code Mirror and as of now that editor doesn’t support mobile.

Code editing on mobile is surprisingly under-developed - most libs were created a long time ago, before mobile was so widespread so none of the major ones work on it.

The most promising effort for mobile is Code Mirror 6 but last time I checked it was still a long way off. If they ever release it, maybe HyperMD will upgrade to it (“maybe” because it would be a tricky upgrade due to the API changes and the fact the existing plugins won’t work anymore).

For me as a university student who often has to deal with formulas the only thing i rly miss in Joplin over MsOffice is the ability to see the part of the formula I’m currently wiritng on. In Ms Office I’m typing a little part of the formula and hit space and Latex / UnicodeMath is converted into a formula, making long complicated formulas still overviewable >_< But this can also be done by making a little window appear under the formula, showing of the whole formula and the part that is getting changed. But that’s only my need, for me there isn’t much of a need to make Joplin become like Typora, for me two areas are even better fitting my needs x.x

(I really appreciate your use of code blocks to better format emoji ⚫️w⚫️)

The problem with japanese emoticons and markdown is that _ in n_n, -_- or ^_^ triggers the italic formatting x.x.
Same problem in Discord, which also uses Mardkown. So the best solution is to make a codeblock around them, to still be able to use this cute japanese emojis n_n
And to keep it consistent make a codeblock around everyone of them, even though only n_n, ^_^, *_*, >_<, ;_;, u_u, o_O, `` and -_- are affected by this problem .o.

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I downloaded Typora and set it as the external editor in Joplin. So far, it’s quite nice–good balance (for me, and obviously some others) of strict markdown syntax along with legible, useable visuals.

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This is needed on Android. I would like to have a user friendly option to adding things to my notes without using markdown.

Interestingly, Marktext uses Joplin’s lib to convert HTML to Markdown - https://github.com/marktext/marktext/blob/5b8da2cdf458518aa93616d47471841b10e06369/src/muya/lib/utils/turndownService.js#L4 and they’ve just filed a bug report (which I plan to fix). Small world :slight_smile:

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Here is comment #79. Why not.

Philosophy

There is one argument in the above thread which is unarguable: all the work is being done by one person and no one can demand anything. And no one said this exactly, but this project isn’t a democracy. OK, I can buy those. So perhaps this won’t happen.

But it is extremely obnoxious all these people who seem incredulous that anyone else would think differently than they do. That this shouldn’t happen as some sort of matter of righteousness.

Accessibility

The lack of simple WYSIWYG editor is the main thing stopping me from using Joplin at work as much as I should. It would really help me and so far it’s the best thing I’ve found but I get frustrated by it a lot.

Maybe it’s because I have a mild cognitive impairment, but I get completely lost in any Markdown file more than 2 or 3 hundred words long. And since you can’t have more than a single file open at once, if you want to look at several things at once, the only way to do it is to put them in the same file. I rely heavily on formatting to structure and therefor understand my own writing in general.

Hide the junk if desired

A lot of the websites that are useful to me at work (and which I keep in notes for citations) have long jibberish URLs. Being unable to hide those in the editing interface creates so much clutter. Like half the screen is occupied with URLs. The footnote feature is really great but it would be better if I could hide the footnotes while typing, because it’s hard to follow.

Does MD need to be visible to be useful?

I have been trying to get with MD for the past several months because all the fun nerdy tools I like rely heavily on it. I know it as well as I’m ever going to and I can see the benefits particularly so far as portability goes. What I do not understand is why it is so sacrilegious to allow the user the option of hiding the back end?

When I make a list, I like it to be evenly indented on the left side even when the line runs long. I like headings to be big so I can follow the structure. I like to have links clickable with hidden URLs. These tools have been created and are popular because they are handy.

I don’t know if there is some sort of neuroplasticity thing that happens to people when they become proficient at programming and spend a lot of time doing it. Maybe you learn a different way of looking at text. I wonder if there is some sort of synesthesia going on. But let me tell you about the rest of us: Looking at information that tells you how the text is going to be formatted is in no way the same as looking at formatted text! No matter how beautiful and straight forward and “natural” the code, it is not the same. Text formatting is as old as text itself because it improves the usability of the technology.

Reddit

Reddit has a really nice way of going between MD and WYSIWYG. What’s wrong with that? Wouldn’t everyone be happy?

Sync the 2 windows

If the format of the two side-by-side windows is the only way forward, is there some way to make it so the scrolling can be synchronized? I get disoriented in the file and can’t find my way back again. Like if I am reviewing in the Preview pane and I notice an error, sometimes I have to do a lot of work to find the right place in the editing pane. Or I edit something and can’t find it in Preview. If there was a button I could press to jump one pane to the same general area as the other, that would be helpful. (To me that sounds much more complicated tho.)

@iLoveVaccines, built-in support for WYSIWYG would be best, but in the meantime have you tried using the external editor feature with something like Typora? Especially with the coming release it’s getting more reliable so for those who really prefer WYSIWYG, this can be a good option.