I'm trying to play around a bit with css and formatting. For example, I change the color in userstyle.css.
Nothing changes in Joplin, even after restarting the app.
But when I restart Windows, the change is there. It seems that Joplin creates a working copy of userstyle.css.
Unfortunately this falls into the "It's a feature, not a bug" category. This behaviour of minimizing to tray is more common in other operating systems. This very issue trips up windows users since it's not normally how we work with apps.
It would be great if that minimize to tray could be off by default.
I also have many programmes that minimize to the tray, but they are things that just run in the background, like my software to take screen shots. No point in having that active in the task bar.
All of the regular software I use (too many to list) show themselves in the task bar if they are running. By the number of people being confused about this (and the need to have a help article to explain how to close the software, something you shouldn't need a help article to tell you how to do) I feel this should not be the default behaviour. When you click on the red x in the top corner of the window, the most common expectation is that the app closes.
Especially since Joplin is so resource hungry. I'm not complaining about that. Just saying that something so resource heavy shouldn't be keeping itself open when you think you are closing it.
But there really isn't any point discussing it because the devs (who I greatly appreciate) have decided this is how it is.
I also feel that the name of the setting "Show tray icon" makes no sense.
The essential question is: How do we communicate that Joplin behaves differently than most Windows apps? It seems to me that I was not the first one who was not aware of this behavior.
I learned that there is a switch to turn this off. The "Show tray icon" switch is checked, but in fact the tray icon looks like the app is no longer active.
This is what it looks like on Joplin when the app was launched
, this is what it looks like when it was closed with X
I agree with Whitewall that the "Show tray icon" label is a bit unfortunate.
Also, I am not sure why the concept of apps not being quit when an application window is closed is so hard to grasp. Closing a window does not mean exiting an app, especially if there's a background process running (the tray icon).
Already feeling the backlash coming, but this is common sense.
This is why there's a FAQ entry, because Windows users apparently think that closing a window means exiting an app. Even if there's an icon in the task bar, tray, or whatever this area with icons is called on Windows, which should indicate that the app is still running.
Many, many years ago, I had Windows installed on a laptop from work for about 2 weeks. So I do remember that there are other Windows apps that do not quit when closing the window.
Because it usually does!! That's what we are trying to say. On Mac it is very different. I guarantee the majority of windows users have no idea what the tray even is. Another thing you may not understand is that most of these tray icons do not show by default.
So for me right now the volume and wifi icons are the only ones that are showing in the tray. Everything else is hidden behind a button. There are 10 icons there and I don't need to see or click on a single one of them for my regular work.
Obviously if people could see the icon in their tray they would have an indication that it was still open. But they don't. Trust me. It's not because people are stupid.
So when a user clicks the red close x, Joplin disappears in exactly the same way that most other applications do. It really does appear to close the app, and that is what one would expect.
Sorry, but two weeks using windows tells you very little. I wish you would trust those of us who have been using windows for twenty years who say that the behaviour for Joplin is not like apps that are similar to it.
In fact, the only non-utility app that I can think of that did this on a regular basis was Skype. They claimed it was to make sure that you recieved incoming calls. But in fact it was because they were taking advantage of your bandwidth. So for the people who do know what's going on, apps that refuse to close themselves (which is how the behaviour appears) are a bit notorious.
The only way I ever close an app is by clicking on the red x at the top right corner. The only time this doesn't close the app is when I have several instances of the same app open. But then it's obvious because it's still lit up on the task bar. The number of people who close an app through the keyboard shortcut or the menu item is extremely small.
Sorry for the rant. This whole thing doesn't affect me anymore since I already have the setting changed. But I work with a lot of non-technical users and feel sympathy for them regarding things like this.
I'm still a bit fuzzy on a few things. When you use an OS, you should learn the basic, most prevalent things about it. I mean there's the Start button that opens the main menu. There's the task bar that shows open apps, and there's the tray, next to the clock. This is basic interface design. 3 things to learn. Three. I think we all can agree that 3 areas of your desktop and what they are used for should be clear to anyone who uses Windows for 20 years.
I appreciate you explanations, but I only partly understand them. You don't have to be an IT expert to understand the basic functions of an OS. I don't want to be difficult or anything. My dad is over 70 and he got it. He never grew up with a computer.
I got from your explanations that most apps are quit when you click the red X. Does Windows have a calendar or a notification app? Are those dead, when you click the red X, meaning you will never receive another notification or calendar event?
Either way, there are exceptions and you even mentioned one of them. Just add Joplin to the list. So what's the problem? I mean, if you think an app is closed but it doesn't behave like it is, check your process list. This is basic troubleshooting. I'm sure there are more complicated troubleshooting steps Windows users go through. I believe it's called the registry....
By now Windows users should know there are apps that do not behave like "normal" Windows apps.
I never said that anyone was stupid. I only said that I didn't understand why it was that hard to grasp.
All I can say is that if you have to have a help article to explain to people how to close an app, then something is wrong. I don't deny that there are some apps that run in the background, of course. I just don't think that this should be the default in Windows since it does not match the behaviour of similar apps.
One thing that I think I have seen before during the application install process is a question like "Would you like this app to continue running in the background when you close it." Sometimes you are also asked if you would like the app to run at startup.
The notification app, from what I can tell, is integrated into the os so when you open it, it never shows in the taskbar. It has its own icon. Calendar is similar. So they may not be the best comparison.
I use the WhatApp desktop application, which would normally be a candidate for "closing" to the tray. But even that doesn't. Closing it really closes it.
You'd be surprised.
But seriously, because most apps that close to the tray are hidden behind a button, and because most of them are utilities that one would access in a different way or not at all, people won't think to look there. Obviously if they did we wouldn't be having this whole conversation.
My only point is that this should not be checked by default or it should be an opt-in upon install. Not that the feature shouldn't exist. I do appreciate that you are trying to understand the Windows perspective.
Personally I don't have a problem to not have this option set on Windows by default. But I do not make these kind of decisions. Laurent does.
But I do know that there will be more tickets open why apps that use the Joplin API and the clipper are not working. I guess it's a trade off. A handful of people who restart Windows vs many people who are freaked out that the clipper doesn't work.
This phrase makes it clear what the option actually does. If a pointer to it was added to the FAQ - clearly saying out that actually shutting Joplin completely will prevent the webclipper working - then you could justifiably say that people should understand how and why Joplin differs from the majority of Windows apps, and why Evernote also needs to hang around in the background to reeive input from the webclipper.
As a side note, the issue doesn't actually affect me because I leave Joplin open the whole time.
I have been burned by this so many times, especially when developing something and needing to restart Joplin desktop often. Lately I've trained myself to close with Ctrl+Q rather than Alt+F4 but it's far from intuitive.
Maybe enable "minimize to tray" when clipper is enabled?