Remove the viewer-only mode in the desktop app?

MisterKelly · 2023-06-07T17:31:52.599Z

FWIW I agree with everyone who has posted in favour of the View mode.

I use it in exactly the same way as @dpoulton suggests and for more or less exactly the same reasons.

Can we just pretend this suggestion never happened?

WolfgangDpunkt · 2023-06-09T09:14:08.849Z

I am also in favor of simplifying the desktop GUI.
One good idea would be to adopt the editor/viewer toggle from the mobile app.
So just use the orange icon, that's intuitive and familiar for users.

At the top of the menu can then simply remain a toggle MD / non-MD.
grafik

Thank you for discussing the suggestion from the Reddit comment in an open manner here. Very kind.

jolufe · 2023-06-09T20:12:15.597Z

Hi,
I use the read-only mode a lot. I don't understand why it should be removed. If it is for the sake of clarity, I think you could add visible labels that say, for example: MD Editor, MD Viewer, Rich Editor. This would make it easy to see which mode you are in at any given time. In my opinion, if something is removed it should be the rich editor, because it has many limitations and sometimes alters the text written in MD. Joplin is a MD note software and I think it is not necessary to have a second (and problematic) WYSWYG editor.

chairmanbrando · 2023-06-10T01:37:16.636Z

I don't really use the view-only mode, but @dpoulton makes a very good case for it. I've been relying on Rich Markdown, but I miss out nice stuff like tables and ToCs because I don't want to see that fugly Markdown. Maybe I'll try his method.

If Joplin presents itself as confusing, it's a messaging and UX issue. Icon-only buttons aren't great at either -- as was found out recently with the new note/task buttons. This feels like the same sort of issue and one that can be fixed by updating the UI rather than taking options away.

Kai · 2023-06-10T06:08:25.039Z

Exactly my way of usage, esp. with the persistent layout; please do not remove the viewer-only-option. If you absolutely must remove something, I would rather lose the WYSIWYG.

johnny · 2023-06-10T08:01:46.848Z

I really like how this is done in Intellij. They have a toolbar in the right top corner of the markdown area with an Iconbutton for all three options: "Editor only", "Editor and Preview", "Preview only". The toolbar is also only visible when the cursor in positioned inside the markdown area.

Maire · 2023-06-10T12:30:38.039Z

laurent:

Do you ever use that mode?

Please work closely with the Note Overview plugin before you remove read-only mode. Right now this is the only way that the Note Overview plugin works and I rely on that heavily.

Details - If Note Overview runs while in the rich text editor, it deletes the entire metadata for the overview. I now never use the rich text editor for that reason.

Details: Note overview - #284 by Maire

johano · 2023-06-10T16:26:45.761Z

Likewise with the Embed Search plugin

maxa · 2023-06-10T20:17:00.469Z

I mainly use MD et view-only mode. So, please, keep it.
Why dont you set an option ... one button to switch between the 4 modes (MD, view-only, split WYSIWYG) and as an option we could choose which mode we want in the rotation.

Wladefant · 2023-06-11T08:33:41.411Z

Hi laurent,

My conclusion: I think the viewer-only mode should stay, because it is a useful and important feature for many users, including myself. However, I also understand that some users may find it confusing or unnecessary, and that it may have some drawbacks for the development and maintenance of Joplin. Therefore, I have created an overview of the question, the modes, the pros and cons of removing the viewer-only mode, and some possible solutions. I hope this can help you and other users to have a better understanding of the issue and to make an informed decision.

Viewer-only mode in Joplin

Question

Should the viewer-only mode be removed in Joplin, a note-taking software that supports Markdown and rich text?

Modes

Viewer-only mode: shows notes without editing options or Markdown code. It is useful for reading, copying text, and avoiding accidental changes.
Markdown editor: shows notes with editing options and Markdown code. It is useful for editing notes using Markdown syntax and plugins.
Rich text editor: shows notes with editing options and rich text formatting. It is useful for editing notes using a familiar word processor interface.
Split view: shows notes with both the editor and the viewer. It is useful for editing and previewing notes at the same time.
Users can press Ctrl+L to toggle between Markdown editor, split view, and viewer-only mode.

Pros and cons of removing the viewer-only mode

Pros	Cons
Simplifying the user interface and reducing confusion	Losing a feature that many users rely on and appreciate
Making Joplin more consistent with other Markdown editors	Making Joplin less flexible and customizable for different use cases and preferences
Encouraging users to learn and use Markdown	Disrupting users' workflows and habits
Reducing the maintenance burden and the potential bugs	Reducing the accessibility and the usability for some users
	Increasing the risk of accidental changes or errors in notes

Possible solutions

Keeping the viewer-only mode as an optional plugin or setting

Allows users who like it to keep using it, while others can disable or uninstall it.
Makes Joplin more modular and extensible, allowing users to customize their experience.

Improving the user interface and the documentation to make the modes more clear and intuitive

Helps users understand the difference between the modes and how to switch between them easily.
Reduces confusion and frustration for new or existing users.

Adding more features and plugins to enhance the Markdown editor, the rich text editor, and the split view, such as:

Image resizing: allows users to adjust the size of images in the editor or the viewer
- Allows users to control how images are displayed in their notes, making them more readable and appealing.
Mode indicator: shows users which mode they are currently using
- Helps users know which mode they are in at a glance, avoiding confusion or mistakes.
- Provides feedback and confirmation for users when they change modes, making them more confident and comfortable.
- For example, one user suggested adding a small icon or a color code to indicate the mode.
Mode lock: allows users to lock a mode for a note or a notebook
- Prevents accidental or unwanted changes to notes or notebooks by locking them in a specific mode.
- Maintains consistency and coherence in notes or notebooks by ensuring that they use the same mode throughout.

My solution: Keeping the viewer-only mode as it is

Recognizes that the viewer-only mode is needed by many users who often have articles saved (web clipper) that they just want to read.
Provides a bigger screen for reading without distractions or clutter from editing options or Markdown code.
Protects notes from accidental changes that could alter their content or formatting.
Respects users' choices and preferences, allowing them to use Joplin in the way that suits them best.

Maire · 2023-06-11T15:10:14.816Z

I believe the issue is that the desktop only wysiwig editor sometimes deletes the markdown comments. The plugin also only runs on the desktop. There could be several possible reasons why.

The wysiwyg editor works just fine on my phone if that helps.

johano · 2023-06-11T15:35:56.963Z

@Maire, My workflow here is to toggle between the markdown and view modes (the read-only rendered markdown view) as needed. I haven't ever used the WYSIWYG editor, but I believe it's as you say, that it can change the markdown.

The phone apps don't have any facility for using plugins at present.

MisterKelly · 2023-06-12T14:02:25.568Z

I also use only the Viewer and the markdown editor and switch between them using Ctrl - L.

I was perhaps too jocularly dismissive in my previous post but I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. There are 2 menu commands.in the View menu. One is Toggle Editor Layout - which has the keyboard shortcut Ctrl - L. The one under it is Layout Button Sequence which remembers your choice and then determines what happens when you toggle.

I do not find this at all confusing and the choices mean that almost all possible variations are available. At some times I have experimented with toggling between the Viewer and the Split Layout. Lately I have felt that I prefer to toggle between Viewer / Editor. I changed my preference with one click.

As I said before I find the Viewer very important. There are more times I want to read notes than edit them and the Viewer treats the note like static text and prevents me accidentally editing or deleting. The iPad version has a similar idea with a different triggering mechanism. It too has a view-only mode and a big button that opens an editing screen.

We could perhaps discuss which interface seems most intuitive - while bearing in mind that both offer a read-only mode.

jzrulhusndy · 2023-06-13T19:48:23.860Z

I mostly use an external editor and keep joplin in viewer mode. What would happen if I accidentally modify a note in joplin while external edit is still active?

Many of my notes use the TOC and mermaid markdown. It seems removing the viewer mode would need an editor(s) upgrade to support all the markdowns, or some of the markdowns will need to be dropped, which would be unfortunate.

kuracisto · 2023-06-17T19:08:04.260Z

no no no
because sometimes would accidentally edit the note when i don't mean to. read-only can protect my note.

ALLIGATOR · 2024-02-12T02:22:44.519Z

Please no!

This is my default mode, which protects my data from accidental modification.

I'd also be cool if you could tell us the final decision, what you've decided, because that's one of the key options for me, and whether I need to start looking for a solution or alternatives.

Rando · 2024-04-07T02:32:06.337Z

I believe it would be great if at some point Joplin would have one viewing-editing-mode only, and ditching the view panel could be the first step in the right direction.
Eventually, Joplin should aim at having one editor view which also renders as you type, in the very same view. The markdown editor could easily become that sole editor if boosted with features like the ones contained in the enhancement plugin, but more meticulously implemented. With that enhancement plugin, you can already have an idea of the wonderful marriage that rich text and markdown could have, becoming essentially one thing. Then there would not be a vital need for any other editor. Surely you'll miss them at first... but think about it..
Ditching so much of that code, Joplin would then become much faster, and all the resource efforts needed to maintain 4 view-modes will be condensed into one layout only. It would be much easier to develop new features, implement themes, maintain the software and fix bugs.
One (but very solid) editor/viewing screen to rule them all.
Surely you may be accustomed to your workflow, and you may grind your teeth by reading what I say... but say that in a hypothetical future you'd test a Joplin version that does not have split/render/wysiwyg modes, but only one screen to type your notes, but that same Joplin now feels 3x snappier, more elegant and steady... plus you can still basically write MD and rich-text format.. just only in the same screen... would you accept the trade?

QuantiusBenignus · 2024-04-07T14:43:46.818Z

My 2 cents:

Viewer only mode is essential for me too.
A three-state switch of the size (at least) of the editor two state switch, arranged left to right:
[Markdown | Split View | Viewer Mode]
would, IMHO, improve the UI experience.
The three-state switch can be placed in the top bar right after the title bar ( assuming I have not modified the UI too much with CSS, forgetting its default state )

Rando · 2024-04-07T18:46:12.692Z

As a new user, what confuses me is how similar the wysiwyg and the viewer look. IMHO they're redundant, but I get that others may find the viewer essential, of course. But shouldn't it be perhaps more obvious that you are in a view only mode though? Perhaps the viewer should be called "print preview" or "web page render" or have some A4 page preview shape?
Also, how much better would it be if the split view would display both editors (md and rich), instead of md and viewer, so that the user can edit both ways without needing to switch between them?

The three-state switch would not work, as you can change its behaviour to be three or two-way. For instance, the way I have it set up is to toggle between editor and split view only... so in my case is essentially a two-state.

prosas · 2024-04-07T19:19:27.172Z

I toggle between split view and view only. Almost never use editor only.