Is Slow Synchronization in Joplin a Manipulation or a Necessity?

Medullitus · 2024-04-11T07:15:31.257Z

Roman, if it's okay to ask, how many notes do you have in your Joplin?

KC_20CY · 2024-04-11T07:26:45.407Z

Medullitus:

I never said that. Thank you for your honesty.

Who else or what else do you have on your mind?

I hope I am not going too far asking this question because you use the term "curse" in your first reply to me.

Medullitus · 2024-04-11T07:33:36.609Z

KC_20CY:

Who else or what else do you have on your mind?

I hope I am not going too far asking this question because you use the term "curse" in your first reply to me.

I think it's deliberate that a note-taking app that has been in operation since 2018 cannot find a solution for days-long synchronization in 2024. I also believe that the problems in other synchronization solutions are deliberately overlooked or even worsened to sell Joplin Cloud to people. I'm not presenting this as a claim. It's my own opinion based on the developments, and it can change.

Apart from a one-sentence accusation message that @laurent could respond to with a clear and detailed answer satisfying everyone and ending the discussions. His lack of contribution to the topic also justifies these suspicions.

KC_20CY · 2024-04-11T07:42:30.379Z

Thanks and it is an interesting reply.
I will give some thoughts about it.

KC_20CY · 2024-04-11T09:10:46.366Z

Medullitus:

Apart from a one-sentence accusation message that @laurent could respond to with a clear and detailed answer satisfying everyone and ending the discussions. His lack of contribution to the topic also justifies these suspicions.

Then, you might be interested in the message in "the solution" (at the lower section of the first post in the thread) which picked by the thread starter of a Joplin thread which just updated an hour ago.

Medullitus · 2024-04-11T09:17:12.899Z

Evernote user since 2011 with a lot of data, I'm considering switching to Joplin but need reassuranc Lounge

If you have a lot of notes, one advice would be to use WebDAV, Joplin Server or Joplin Cloud for sync. Anything else, in particular Dropbox and OneDrive, will be too slow for that many notes.

Are you referring to this message? Yes, it actually had an impact on my thoughts.

KC_20CY · 2024-04-11T09:25:54.648Z

Medullitus:

Are you referring to this message? Yes, it actually had an impact on my thoughts.

No. I am referring to the highlighted message as shown as below attached screenshot. But I am glad you found something useful for you.

2024-04-11_1722171856×1819 131 KB

Medullitus · 2024-04-11T09:42:07.855Z

Thanks. I've read that too. But what our developer doesn't seem to understand or is ignoring is the problem caused by the first synchronization taking days.

KC_20CY · 2024-04-11T09:44:03.331Z

Medullitus:

Thanks. I've read that too. But what our developer doesn't seem to understand or is ignoring is the problem caused by the first synchronization taking days.

My best guess is that @laurent knows about "taking days" part.

KC_20CY · 2024-04-11T10:09:09.406Z

Medullitus:

KC_20CY:

Who else or what else do you have on your mind?

I hope I am not going too far asking this question because you use the term "curse" in your first reply to me.

I think it's deliberate that a note-taking app that has been in operation since 2018 cannot find a solution for days-long synchronization in 2024. I also believe that the problems in other synchronization solutions are deliberately overlooked or even worsened to sell Joplin Cloud to people. I'm not presenting this as a claim. It's my own opinion based on the developments, and it can change.

Apart from a one-sentence accusation message that @laurent could respond to with a clear and detailed answer satisfying everyone and ending the discussions. His lack of contribution to the topic also justifies these suspicions.

What I am going to express might be considered relevant or irrelevant to this thread, but your earlier reply did inspire me and took one of my philosophical research subjects to a whole new different level, Just ignore this post if considered irrelevant, I am expressing my gratitude. I'm from Taiwan BTW.

Medullitus · 2024-04-11T10:28:02.477Z

Thank you. We're not here to argue anyway. We're all here to exchange ideas and keep the community spirit alive, striving to make Joplin a better application together. Greetings from Turkey

KC_20CY · 2024-04-11T10:31:49.300Z

Medullitus:

Thank you. We're not here to argue anyway. We're all here to exchange ideas and keep the community spirit alive, striving to make Joplin a better application together. Greetings from Turkey

Thanks, to you and your Turkish fellowman in below news:
Turkish rescue workers assist Taiwan's quake relief efforts - Focus Taiwan

KC_20CY · 2024-04-11T11:36:21.308Z

As in my Joplin profile goes, I am a self-titled AI philosopher and a conceptual artist, so except expressed my philosophical gratitude in my earlier post, please allow me to express my gratitude in a more artistic way. By doing so, my best guess is that any follower who is following my online activity can truly get inspired like I do from our idea exchange in this thread.

Below is my artistic gratitude with a few words and a video:

The aforementioned inspiration is a DOUBLE-COOL one.

roman_r_m · 2024-04-11T17:24:20.737Z

Not many, 1260 notes, the total profile size is under 1gb I think.

Medullitus · 2024-04-11T17:39:38.555Z

Thanks. I had guessed that. Don't forget to drop by when you reach 11k notes. Of course, if nothing has changed by then.

Medullitus · 2024-04-12T07:46:42.077Z

tomasz86:

Not really possible even with root. You would need to modify the Android source code itself, and then compile your own version of the OS. Also, Syncthing can already run as root but it doesn't change anything. For the record, this slow file access through FUSE in Android is a rather new thing. If you use Syncthing in Android 10 or older, then the sync is going to be extremely quick.

tomasz86:

You're right, it's apparently Android 9 and older. I've got one Android 7 device still in use and the difference is not even funny, e.g. it may take 10 minutes to sync 10,000 files there, while on a new Android 14 device the same operation will take at least 10 hours, if not much longer.

FUSE has been used starting from Android 11. I'm using Android 10. Therefore, your claim about slowness due to the information provided and Android is incorrect in terms of FUSE! The proof link is below:

Source Android

Additionally, here you say that root access is required to overcome slow synchronization, but you also mention that the current Joplin app does not have a root mode. Now you're saying that even root access won't be enough to solve the problem. Which one is correct?

tomasz86:

This is a known issue if you look up "android fuse" in any search engine. The only way to work around this would be through root, but Joplin doesn't have any special root mode which would allow for direct filesystem access.

tomasz86:

Not really possible even with root. You would need to modify the Android source code itself, and then compile your own version of the OS. Also, Syncthing can already run as root but it doesn't change anything. For the record, this slow file access through FUSE in Android is a rather new thing. If you use Syncthing in Android 10 or older, then the sync is going to be extremely quick.

Android sync from FS still very slow Support

Yes, the problem affects filesystem sync only . How early of a version of Joplin? The older versions which targeted older SDKs were allowed to access the filesystem more directly (= faster). The current versions are forced to use FUSE which is more secure but also very slow (e.g. see https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/kpn68k/android_11_very_slow_file_access_performance). This is a known issue if you look up "android fuse" in any search engine. The only way to work …

@roman_r_m

KC_20CY · 2024-04-12T08:27:32.039Z

KC_20CY:

Medullitus:

Thanks. I've read that too. But what our developer doesn't seem to understand or is ignoring is the problem caused by the first synchronization taking days.

My best guess is that @laurent knows about "taking days" part.

I am pondering on some phenomenon so I am asking this question.

Does anyone know that after the time of above message set, is there any update/forum news/forum announcement which relates "faster speed of the initial sync of a many-notes Joplin user"? Sometime the aforementioned updates hidden in somewhere of old but updated thread, so I ask this question.

roman_r_m · 2024-04-12T10:49:40.896Z

Not sure what you're expecting of me tbh. I think I'm done with explaining. If you prefer to think the slowness is introduced intentionally to nudge users towards Joplin Cloud, that's your right.

But then I'm going to think that you're working for one of the competitors like Obsidian or Standard Notes, and make these statements to push people away (just kidding, I don't actually think so, but since we're doing conspiracy theories..)

Medullitus · 2024-04-12T11:02:17.707Z

roman_r_m:

Not sure what you're expecting of me bth. I think I'm done with explaining. If you prefer to think the slowness is introduced intentionally to nudge users towards Joplin Cloud, that's your right.

But then I'm going to think that you're working for one of the competitors like Obsidian or Standard Notes, and make these statements to push people away (just kidding, I don't actually think so, but since we're doing conspiracy theories..)

Have you noticed your own words aside from what I've written? Didn't you emphasize @tomasz86 below?

Is Slow Synchronization in Joplin a Manipulation or a Necessity? Support

Also - Android's file system access is slow, as @tomasz86 has pointed out. Even if the existing code can be optimized, I am not convinced there can be huge performance gain.

Also, I had mentioned my thoughts about Obsidian and Standard Notes. Besides, I speak of links and sources that substantiate my claims. On the other hand, you're speaking based on your own thoughts, and you can even change your stance later on. My advice to you is to be honest and approach the topic impartially. Otherwise, you may harm the application you think you're protecting!

Medullitus:

However, let's not misunderstand here; there are note-taking applications such as Obsidian, Simplenote, etc... that do not allow for alternatives other than their own servers and charge monthly or yearly fees. I am not comparing Joplin to them, and I consider Joplin to be superior because it grants users such freedom.

tomasz86 · 2024-04-12T13:11:48.594Z

Medullitus:

FUSE has been used starting from Android 11. I'm using Android 10. Therefore, your claim about slowness due to the information provided and Android is incorrect in terms of FUSE! The proof link is below:

Source Android

Additionally, here you say that root access is required to overcome slow synchronization, but you also mention that the current Joplin app does not have a root mode. Now you're saying that even root access won't be enough to solve the problem. Which one is correct?

The link is about FUSE passthrough, not FUSE itself. This is an additional mechanism that Google added later to supposedly speed up the slow I/O caused by FUSE. It hasn't really helped much though, at least in my use case.

When it comes to rooting, according to my current knowledge, root access alone cannot overcome this limitation.